[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Unsound Unsound:

And people with Ebola should have the choice to attend public sporting events and concerts.

When it starts to become a severe public health issue, people's choices sometimes need to be constrained.

It ain't ebola.

You missed the point.

Delwin's point was:

$1:

Parents are entitled to raise their children how they like.

That doesn't mean you can do whatever you want without respect for public safety. If you have a disease like Ebola, you shouldn't be able to go out in pubic despite your personal entitlement to infect the public.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

That doesn't mean you can do whatever you want without respect for public safety. If you have a disease like Ebola [Measles, the Flu, Pneumonia], you shouldn't be able to go out in pubic despite your personal entitlement to infect the public.

FTFY.

[Delwin]

Regina Regina:

Delwin Delwin:

Sorry you can't force children to get vaccinated any more than you can force pregnant women to take thalidomide. Parents are entitled to raise their children how they like.

Although I believe that getting vaccinated is the best option, there are actual benefits to not getting vaccinated and risk to those whom do and for that reason I believe it should be a choice.

Risks and potential side effects:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

If your first kid got severe brain damage from the measles vaccine, which is an actual extremely rare side effect, I am thinking you would all opt out of giving your second child the same vaccine.

The choice needs to be there.

There are no benefits for NOT getting immunized.

Of course there are, natural immunities are more "complete" than vaccinated immunities, plus I posted the link to the risks involved with vaccination. One benifit is that you do not expose yourself to those risks.
As I had mentioned, I believe vaccination is the right decision, but lets not lie about things.

[andyt]

With flu vaccine, getting vaccinated one year, makes it more likely the vaccine will be less effective for you the next. So far they don't know why. Guess people just gotta have the flu.

[peck420]

I guess it is a real good thing that anti-vaccer's only opt out of the baby pathogen vaccinations (MMR, Flu)...right?

[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

Of course there are, natural immunities are more "complete" than vaccinated immunities, plus I posted the link to the risks involved with vaccination. One benifit is that you do not expose yourself to those risks.
As I had mentioned, I believe vaccination is the right decision, but lets not lie about things.

Natural immunities aren't more complete. Vaccinated immunities give the patient a weakened version of the virus, and it causes your immune system to produce antibodies against the virus. Eating a bunch of green shit won't do that.

You have a better chance of of being killed by a firework than you do taking this vaccine.

Let's take your own advice; let's not lie.

Natural immunities are not more complete and the serious complications from this vaccine are so very rare.

[Delwin]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Natural immunities are not more complete and the serious complications from this vaccine are so very rare.

Please stop with the BS.

While “natural immunity” does tend to be more protective than “vaccine-induced immunity,” the high price of natural immunity is not a risk worth taking when a safe vaccine is available and effective.

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/famili ... kenpox.pdf

[xerxes]

I think the problem is that we in North America are about two or three generations removed from having these diseases as scourge on the young. A friend of mines great grandmother was crippled by polio. There's a on old guy at my workplace who's half deaf because he had the mumps when he was a lad.

These idiots don't know that reality. They think the world has been completely sanitized and that there's no risk to going unvaccinated. They don't think about others and they're a menace. I say absolutely take their kids away and have them vaccinated. I don't care if their skygod says its evil or some blonde bimbo with fake tits says it's bad, it's parental neglect.

[OnTheIce]

Delwin Delwin:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Natural immunities are not more complete and the serious complications from this vaccine are so very rare.

Please stop with the BS.

While “natural immunity” does tend to be more protective than “vaccine-induced immunity,” the high price of natural immunity is not a risk worth taking when a safe vaccine is available and effective.

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/famili ... kenpox.pdf

Nothing I have said is BS. You on the other hand...

[Delwin]

@ OTI

You said Natural immunities are not more complete, I posted a link where it is stated that natural immunities are more protective. Now think about this for a second, if naturally aquired immunity is more protective, it stands to reason that your immunity is more complete,i.e you have more complete protection from the pathogen.

Ergo, your bullshit is exposed.

[Thanos]

xerxes xerxes:

I think the problem is that we in North America are about two or three generations removed from having these diseases as scourge on the young. A friend of mines great grandmother was crippled by polio. There's a on old guy at my workplace who's half deaf because he had the mumps when he was a lad.

These idiots don't know that reality. They think the world has been completely sanitized and that there's no risk to going unvaccinated. They don't think about others and they're a menace. I say absolutely take their kids away and have them vaccinated. I don't care if their skygod says its evil or some blonde bimbo with fake tits says it's bad, it's parental neglect.

We'll probably have to undergo a series of epidemics that kill and cripple millions again before these kind of meatheads smarten up. The previous epidemics were too long ago in the past for anyone to really remember them. The short-term memory of our ridiculous species will always be a millstone collectively hanging from our necks.

Personally I don't know which aspect of it to be more offended by. The left-wing holistic granola-munchers going on about how vaccines are, like, not organic, man. Or the right-wing dipshits in the US who are turning this into some kind of anti-government anti-regulation crusade. Or the batshit tinhatters from both sides of the spectrum that believe in chemtrails and think that vaccinations are the method by which ZOG inserts X-File style tracking devices into your body. Doesn't matter where it comes from. All it amounts to is that a pack of idiots being moronic on purpose are destroying the legacy of one of the most successful medical programs in all of human history.

The bad ones are few in number, but the genuinely stupid ones are legion in number, and the overall effect of their actions and decisions is just as negative as anything any deliberately evil committed by criminals. This is the sort of thing that pretty much justifies my desire to have a comet the size of Mt. Everest smack into the planet at 100 km per second just to put a permanent end to the rest of us getting fucked over by these idiots all the time.

[Regina]

Delwin Delwin:

Of course there are, natural immunities are more "complete" than vaccinated immunities, plus I posted the link to the risks involved with vaccination. One benifit is that you do not expose yourself to those risks.
As I had mentioned, I believe vaccination is the right decision, but lets not lie about things.

Well since you have no education or expertise in Immunology and provided no scientific papers proving "natural immunization", I will take that statement as an opinion with no factual base. Any natural immunity would require exposure and survival of the viral disease, therefore providing immunization. Not sure if you read the link you provided but with any real study, they provide any significant, insignificant conditions that may or may not even relate to the vaccine. Here are a few of the notations you provided.

$1:

Severe Problems (Very Rare)

-It is not clear whether these mild or serious problems were caused by the vaccine or occurred after vaccination by chance.
-Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.
-Serious allergic reactions, within a few minutes to a few hours of the shot, are very rare.
-Life-threatening allergic reactions from any vaccine are very rare.
-A vaccine, like any medicine, could cause a serious reaction. But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
-However, a vaccine, like any medicine, could cause serious problems, such as a severe allergic reaction or even death. The risk of a polio vaccine causing serious harm is extremely small.
-Other nervous system disorders, such as Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS), have been reported after rabies vaccine, but this happens so rarely that it is not known whether they are related to the vaccine.
-Other serious problems, including severe brain reactions and low blood count, have been reported after chickenpox vaccination. These happen so rarely experts cannot tell whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. If they are, it is extremely rare.

These rare or nonexistent notations in the studies are what these "Jenny's" peddle as fact without understanding and hearing only what they want to hear. This is also fine but if these nitwits want to play scientist, then they should not be allowed to associate with the rest of the public. Because even if they don't fall ill from these viruses they will be a nice warm transmission vehicle for the rest of the population.

[Regina]

Delwin Delwin:

While “natural immunity” does tend to be more protective than “vaccine-induced immunity,” the high price of natural immunity is not a risk worth taking when a safe vaccine is available and effective.

Your link had 25 immunizations and side effects. Which ones are more protected by natural immunity?

[OnTheIce]

[Delwin]

@Regina

Rarely, secondary encephalitis occurs as a complication of a live virus vaccination.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20021917

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines-au ... in-a-name/