[desertdude]

martin14 martin14:

desertdude desertdude:

Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done. So so much for that myth.

citation needed, because I'm pretty sure that is a lot of bullshit.

And I was pretty sure you were able to read but hey everybody has their shortcomings

From this very thread second time I've had to quote myself here now

desertdude desertdude:

Goober911 Goober911:

desertdude desertdude:

And the Jews should make all their land claims with the Italians.

Anywho. Hamas, present leadership will not ever recognize Israel in the event of a peace deal.
I say present as there have been many reports of a deep division within Hamas.
Those in the leadership, not in Gaza are firm in their commitment.
Those in Gaza, not all, but closer to that round going off on the top of their house are open to a negotiated settlement.
Would that be correct?

Thats another myth thats kept alive by the pro Israelis propagandists. Hamas has openly said it is willingly to recognize Israel and so has Abbas, the there is also the Arab peace plan which ever Arab state has signed except Israel.

...

What Israel wants is to have its cake and eat it too.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 68,00.html

Rest of the post was pretty retarted even by marty standards and not worth dignifying with a response.

Also for any poster who would like to contribute to this thread PLEASE go through the previous pages, don't just barge in and keep asking the same questions which have been answered, multiple times now in this thread.

[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

Also for any poster who would like to contribute to this thread PLEASE go through the previous pages, don't just barge in and keep asking the same questions which have been answered, multiple times now in this thread.

It's an 8 year old link.

$1:

Senior Hamas officials, including the group's politburo chief Khaled Mashaal and Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, recently reiterated that they would not give in to pressures and budgets and would not change the movement's principles, according to which Hamas does not recognize Israel.

It is not the view of Hamas to recognize Israel in any way. Those two run Gaza, not some halfwit spokesman.
Your own link proves you wrong, it's you who needs reading lessons.

Maybe read more than the headline for a change.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

desertdude desertdude:

Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done.

Israel has recognized Israel since 1949.

14 May 1948 is the correct date.
Has Israel under the present leadership negotiated towards a peace agreement?
Did Israel throw deliberate roadblocks and decisions such as expanding settlements, in Jerusalem, that was previously agreed to by both as Palestinian land?

Every time Israel has taken out the leadership of a terror group, another comes along and they are worse.
Egypt is not trusted by Hamas. Why, they are part of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I think the number of Morsi supporters receiving the death penalty in Egyptian show trials is well over the 1000 mark.
Guess that make them justified in not trusting Egypt.

And they are fighting the only way they can.
Israel can throw hamas a bone, ceasefire begins.

Then the West including the EU have to pressure Israel to make a deal.
Not the original 67 borders as Israel will not agree.
Right of return, Abbas has already thrown that aside.
He is ready to recognize Israel
Israel wants recognition as a Jewish State. What about those that are not Jewish?

They will also not give up control of their holy sites as they were denied entry to this area up till the 67 war.

[desertdude]

Marty you moron, you expect Hamas to issue a statement every month. Israeli does not even recognize its fairly elected govt. This is a show of willingness how far they are ready to go, at least an intent is there, same can't be said for the Israelis when they have sabotaged and road blocked every round of talks for a lasting solution.

[Goober911]

desertdude desertdude:

Marty you moron, you expect Hamas to issue a statement every month. Israeli does not even recognize its fairly elected govt. This is a show of willingness how far they are ready to go, at least an intent is there, same can't be said for the Israelis when they have sabotaged and road blocked every round of talks for a lasting solution.

Israel as many in the west do, have Hamas listed as a terror org.
They will never recognize Hamas.

[BartSimpson]

@Goober911

True, Israel has in the past offered to define areas in Jerusalem as belonging to the Palestinian Authority which was under Yassir Arafat at the time.

Arafat rejected that offer.

So the issue with the settlements essentially falls to whoever controls the land they sit on and right now that's Israel. I doubt that the Israelis wil surrender that land.

The message for the Palestinians here is that the next time Israel comes to the table with an offer just accept it and move on.

But that's not enough for them, the Palestinians want *all* of Israel and they won't rest until they get it or die trying.

I expect they'll die trying.

[Goober911]

5 hr ceasefire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world ... de-package

[peck420]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But that's not enough for them, the Palestinians want *all* of Israel and they won't rest until they get it or die trying.

All? The continued sticking point appears to be the 1967 border. That wouldn't be a sticking point if they wanted all.

For two states that supposedly want peace...they both provide a lot of lip service, but not a lot of action to back it up...well, in regards to peacemaking any way. They both provide lots of action in the other direction.

Israel is never going to get Palestine to agree to all of her current terms.

Palestine is never going to get Israel to agree to all of her current terms.

Eventually, this toilet bowl of a situation is just going to spiral itself down the drain.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

In fact, didn't the Palestinians acknowledge Israel's right to exist? As for the Arab world, doesn't seem right to hinge negotiations with the Palestinians on what all Arab countries are willing to do. That makes Palestine hostage to other countries whims.

They may, I don't know. But I do know peace negotiations and negotiations for Palestinian Statehood cannot occur with a State you fail to recognize exists.

You're talking about Israel's refusal to recognize Palestine here, right?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

So both sides need to acknowledge that they are sovereign states, no, and that negotiations will be about the shared border? Read this forum tho, and the reasons why Palestine is not and should not be a state fly thick and heavy - same as Israel's position.

I think of Palestine more like our Indian Reservations. Semi-Autonomous. Self Ruling. Still part of the larger State that created them. If they want to be recognized as full autonomous States part of a World of Autonomous States, act like one.

Hmmm. That's apartheid. Use that word for Israel's policy, and the anti-semitism whinging begins. If Israel wants to incorporate all of Palestine into Israel, give Palestinians full citizenship rights as well as special indigenous rights the way we do, allow free movement throughout this greater Israel by Palestinians, well let them. Don't think that's a good idea personally, would eliminate Israel as Jewish state pretty darn quick. So Palestine is not like our Indian reservations, but like the Bantustans of apartheid. Too bad you're OK with that.

[Freakinoldguy]

desertdude desertdude:

Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done. So so much for that myth.

I must be confused about what constitutes a myth because:

$1:

Hamas: We are Not Terrorists; We Just Want to Destroy Israel

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3629/hamas-terrorists

$1:

Hamas wants be dropped from the U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations not because it has changed, but because it feels that the world has changed, and that many naïve Westerners are now willing to tolerate its radical ideology and terrorism.

It sure doesn't sound like they want to recognize Israel.

[andyt]

So Palestinians are terrorists because they refuse to recognize Israel, but Israel is kosher even tho they won't recognize Palestine? Strange.

[PluggyRug]

andyt andyt:

So Palestinians are terrorists because they want to exterminate Israel, but Israel is kosher even tho they won't recognize Palestine? Strange.

Er...no.... edited for accuracy.

[andyt]

So at what point will Israel stop taking land and leave the rest for the Palestinians? will this rest be any kind of viable country? If not, is that not the same as exterminating Palestinians? Pushing them in Jordan is different than pushing the the Israelis into the Mediterranean how?

[PluggyRug]

andyt andyt:

So at what point will Israel stop taking land and leave the rest for the Palestinians? will this rest be any kind of viable country? If not, is that not the same as exterminating Palestinians? Pushing them in Jordan is different than pushing the the Israelis into the Mediterranean how?

When the Palestinians get rid of the terrorist organisation Hamas and elect a democratic peaceful government. Never going to happen tho'.

[BRAH]

Egyptians increasingly critical of Hamas
Blame Palestinian militant group for violence in Israel, Gaza Strip

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/16/egyptians-increasingly-critical-of-hamas/
___

Meh, who cares what Egyptians think because it's Israel's fault.