So Israel should just bend over and let Hamas fuck them in the ass without responding because they have the better technology?
As long as Hamas gives them the reach around, i don't see the problem.
martin14
CKA Uber
Posts: 33691
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:55 pm
desertdude desertdude:
Well lets thank the powers that be that they are firing guided bombs which have caused over 150 casualties and around 1500 wounded out of which 70% are civilians, women and children included.
Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit.
You very conveniently mislead this forum by trying to place blame on the Israelis, when the real blame for civilian casualties rests squarely with Hamas.
The IDF has to fire into civilian areas because Hamas is hiding behind women and children.
Let the fighters come out to the border area and fight like men.
Then we will see who gets killed, who gets spared, and who continues to really attack civilians.
martin14
CKA Uber
Posts: 33691
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:00 pm
desertdude desertdude:
Now consider this, 100% of the population is being bombarded, there are no bomb shelters, there are no sirens to warn of imminent doom, at best the famous knock on the roof, which gives you between 45 secs and three minutes to get away or be blown to smithereens and losing your house and any worldy possessions you might have.
And whose fault is that ?
All normal countries at war made provisions to protect civilians; and yet, Hamas does not. Speaks volumes.
I don't recall the English or Germans were ever treated so politely.
$1:
Also In Israels case 99% chance the missle wont hit anything and with puny warheads maybe damage a wall or car, but in Gaza's case you know its going to it and there is going to be a pretty big boom
Once again, whining about how bad Hamas is at their job.
And you are, as usual, full of shit again. People die from those 'puny' rockets.
desertdude
CKA Elite
Posts: 4235
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:45 am
Wow, Marty must be really ticked off, he actually wrote two entire crappy posts back to back, rather than his usual one line snipe. Didn't know he could write more than one line to be honest.
Only means I must be doing something right to get martypoo all lathered up
DrCaleb
CKA Moderator
Posts: 53473
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:38 am
desertdude desertdude:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Or we could thank the Palestinians for using those people as human shields knowing that it would not stop the bombing.
I don't believe these same things keep coming up again and again ad nauseam and every time they have to be re explained. Another one of those talking points that really has no merit to it. You have seen by the figures posted how densely packed gaza is, sometimes families living in a building will amass on a rooftop in hope that their home will not be destroyed. And sometimes this happen, 17 members of one family gets killed because one of them was an alleged target.
No merit? I really wish news organizations posted online what they had in their broadcasts so I could show you, because I tell you that we hear all the time cases where people in Gaza are told to get out of their houses because the IDF will strike them or somewhere near them - and they stay!
For 17 people to gather on a rooftop to try to avert a missile strike is suicide. The missile doesn't care, it just wants to hit it's target. If their uncle is a top Hamas Commander, perhaps next week might be better for a visit.
We could go on like that for hundreds of years. I like to divide Israeli/Palestinian conflicts into shooting/not shooting because rockets tend to fly whether they are arguing or not.
Before the Israelis started shooting this time, 3 kids were kidnapped and killed. I know all about the atrocities they commit, and the ones the Palestinians have committed that cause the Israelis to retaliate. They've been in a situation where everyone wants to kill them for so long, they don't know any other way.
And we all know the way this has to end. The Arab world must acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. Once they do that, then negotiations can begin for peace.
andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:47 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
[quot And we all know the way this has to end. The Arab world must acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. Once they do that, then negotiations can begin for peace.
Absolutely. But isn't the same onus on Israel? I was shocked when I found out, after all that wailing about this, that Israel will not extend recognition to a Palestinian state either.
In fact, didn't the Palestinians acknowledge Israel's right to exist? As for the Arab world, doesn't seem right to hinge negotiations with the Palestinians on what all Arab countries are willing to do. That makes Palestine hostage to other countries whims.
So both sides need to acknowledge that they are sovereign states, no, and that negotiations will be about the shared border? Read this forum tho, and the reasons why Palestine is not and should not be a state fly thick and heavy - same as Israel's position.
BRAH
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 9445
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:48 am
MSNBC's Matthews: 'True Peace' in Middle East Won't Happen Until Palestinians Respect Israelis' Right to Life
[quot And we all know the way this has to end. The Arab world must acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. Once they do that, then negotiations can begin for peace.
Absolutely. But isn't the same onus on Israel? I was shocked when I found out, after all that wailing about this, that Israel will not extend recognition to a Palestinian state either.
Why? The UN recognizes Israel as soverign. It doesn't recognize Palestine. Places like Saudi Arabia and Iran don't recognize Israel as a State either. It's always 'The Occupied Palestinian Territory'. Israel has given the West Bank and Gaza strip the right to self rule, so I think they've tried a small step down that path. Why should they go further without being met halfway?
andyt andyt:
In fact, didn't the Palestinians acknowledge Israel's right to exist? As for the Arab world, doesn't seem right to hinge negotiations with the Palestinians on what all Arab countries are willing to do. That makes Palestine hostage to other countries whims.
They may, I don't know. But I do know peace negotiations and negotiations for Palestinian Statehood cannot occur with a State you fail to recognize exists.
andyt andyt:
So both sides need to acknowledge that they are sovereign states, no, and that negotiations will be about the shared border? Read this forum tho, and the reasons why Palestine is not and should not be a state fly thick and heavy - same as Israel's position.
I think of Palestine more like our Indian Reservations. Semi-Autonomous. Self Ruling. Still part of the larger State that created them. If they want to be recognized as full autonomous States part of a World of Autonomous States, act like one.
andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:16 am
All those apply to Israel too. How can Israel expect to negotiate if it won't accept Palestine as a state - who exactly is it negotiating with, then, and for what? If Israel wants peace, act like it, quit taking land.
Are you saying Palestine is part of Jordan? If so, I'm not sure the Jordanians want them, don't seem to be part of the negotiations.
BartSimpson
CKA Moderator
Posts: 65472
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:21 am
desertdude desertdude:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
We deserve it.
Well then stop crying about Obama in every second post you make and what you are going through pales in comparison to what they are. and take it like a man as you expect the population of Gaza to do.
If I lived in Gaza then Khaled Meshaal would already be dead and I've have served up his corpse to the Israelis as proof that they would be safe to stop their attacks.
My point is that if the people in Gaza didn't support what Meshaal is doing then they'd have already have ousted him.
desertdude
CKA Elite
Posts: 4235
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:04 am
Not willing to recognize thing, thats another merit-less argument. The Arab peace plan of 2002 then re-endorsed in 2005 which recognizes the state of Israel is signed by every Arab nation except Israel. Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done. So so much for that myth.
The other point as and when Israel has warned its going to attack and people need to evacuate, they have like in the case of bait lehia. Sometimes the warning comes in as little as 3 minutes before the bomb drops. And you've see the firepower they use and to use that kind of firepower in such a densely populated area is a recipe for disaster.
Also in house as many 4 or 5 or even more families live in a single house, even if one is a target where do you expect them go ? Like the Jon Stewart video says make a swim for it ?
desertdude
CKA Elite
Posts: 4235
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:06 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
If I lived in Gaza then Khaled Meshaal would already be dead and I've have served up his corpse to the Israelis as proof that they would be safe to stop their attacks.
My point is that if the people in Gaza didn't support what Meshaal is doing then they'd have already have ousted him.
Yeah bart in your fantasy black and white, everything is so oh simple world maybe, but not in the real world where everyone else lives.
martin14
CKA Uber
Posts: 33691
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:31 am
desertdude desertdude:
Not willing to recognize thing, thats another merit-less argument. The Arab peace plan of 2002 then re-endorsed in 2005 which recognizes the state of Israel is signed by every Arab nation except Israel.
Oh wow, and asked for nothing else ?
No wonder it failed so fast, it was a retarded plan.
$1:
Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done. So so much for that myth.
citation needed, because I'm pretty sure that is a lot of bullshit.
$1:
Sometimes the warning comes in as little as 3 minutes before the bomb drops. Also in house as many 4 or 5 or even more families live in a single house, even if one is a target where do you expect them go ? Like the Jon Stewart video says make a swim for it ?
More whining about nothing, ask the people in Coventry if they got a warning.
Or the twin towers for that matter.
Swim ? Fuck no, the evil nasty JOOOOOOO$$ have a blockade on !!
BartSimpson
CKA Moderator
Posts: 65472
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:10 am
desertdude desertdude:
Even Hamas has stated it is willing to recognize Israel, something Israel has never done.
Israel has recognized Israel since 1949.
BartSimpson
CKA Moderator
Posts: 65472
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:12 am
desertdude desertdude:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
If I lived in Gaza then Khaled Meshaal would already be dead and I've have served up his corpse to the Israelis as proof that they would be safe to stop their attacks.
My point is that if the people in Gaza didn't support what Meshaal is doing then they'd have already have ousted him.
Yeah bart in your fantasy black and white, everything is so oh simple world maybe, but not in the real world where everyone else lives.
My black and white isn't fantasy, for a fair portion of my adult life it was my vocation.