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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:56 pm
 


housewife housewife:
Would that be new cars or just cars in general? Big city thinking is one of the big reasons northern Ontario hates Toronto. Ontario government has lowered train speed instead of fixing track and got rid of the passenger train and bus service is slow. Ordering online isn’t always feasible which means you have to drive. Daughter is still muttering about having to drive to Sudbury to get work boots. And just to keep things interesting she added in a rant about the man trying to keep women from non-traditional jobs by making PPE hard to get. :roll:



Not cars in general but when people waste ridiculous amounts for expensive luxury cars, sports cars, cars souped up with stupid aftermarket mods like giant spoilers or spinning rims, etc.


Last edited by BeaverFever on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:00 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
housewife housewife:
Would that be new cars or just cars in general? Big city thinking is one of the big reasons northern Ontario hates Toronto. Ontario government has lowered train speed instead of fixing track and got rid of the passenger train and bus service is slow. Ordering online isn’t always feasible which means you have to drive. Daughter is still muttering about having to drive to Sudbury to get work boots. And just to keep things interesting she added in a rant about the man trying to keep women from non-traditional jobs by making PPE hard to get. :roll:



Not cars in general but when people waste ridiculous amounts for expensive luxury cars, sports cars, cars souped up with aftermarket mods like giant spoilers or spinning rims, etc.

If they enjoy it, what's it matter to you?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:02 pm
 


Tricks Tricks:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
housewife housewife:
Would that be new cars or just cars in general? Big city thinking is one of the big reasons northern Ontario hates Toronto. Ontario government has lowered train speed instead of fixing track and got rid of the passenger train and bus service is slow. Ordering online isn’t always feasible which means you have to drive. Daughter is still muttering about having to drive to Sudbury to get work boots. And just to keep things interesting she added in a rant about the man trying to keep women from non-traditional jobs by making PPE hard to get. :roll:



Not cars in general but when people waste ridiculous amounts for expensive luxury cars, sports cars, cars souped up with aftermarket mods like giant spoilers or spinning rims, etc.

If they enjoy it, what's it matter to you?


We’re talking about people’s excessive consumption are we not?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:06 pm
 


Excessive consumption is in the eye of the beholder only, usually some busybody scold who's going to say something mean on practically everything that they see and don't like. If someone blinging their car creates jobs for some other folks then what's wrong with that? No one else's goddamn business at all except for the buyer and the seller.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:09 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
We’re talking about people’s excessive consumption are we not?

Buying a luxury vehicle =/= excessive consumption in my opinion. Buying a vehicle every 12 months would be. Buying a single high quality product vs many shit quality products is the complete opposite of excessive consumption.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:24 pm
 


Buying a luxury vehicle means that a dealership employing upwards of a hundred people stays in business, with jobs that prevent those people from falling down the social ladder and keeping them off of public assistance. And, most importantly, provides the income taxes and sales taxes that keep the governments running.

People buying things keep the country and the entire world economy running. This should be a no-brainer for everyone by now, given the four or five thousand years or so since basic capitalism first appeared in human societies.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:51 pm
 


Just made the trip from PG to Terrace and back. Sure would've been fun in an MG or TR4...
and not going to concede my planned Kongo carrier rack and rock deflector purchase is excessive consumption. Or the new iPad I got myself for a Fathers Day gift...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:05 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
housewife housewife:
Would that be new cars or just cars in general? Big city thinking is one of the big reasons northern Ontario hates Toronto. Ontario government has lowered train speed instead of fixing track and got rid of the passenger train and bus service is slow. Ordering online isn’t always feasible which means you have to drive. Daughter is still muttering about having to drive to Sudbury to get work boots. And just to keep things interesting she added in a rant about the man trying to keep women from non-traditional jobs by making PPE hard to get. :roll:



Not cars in general but when people waste ridiculous amounts for expensive luxury cars, sports cars, cars souped up with stupid aftermarket mods like giant spoilers or spinning rims, etc.


Yeah I don’t understand that either but to each their own. We bought the Jeep new but I’m still driving it 11 years later and probably for years to come


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:18 pm
 


BRAH BRAH:
Canadian Officials Rush to Support U.S. Envoy After Death Threat
$1:
Top Canadian officials, led by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, rushed to express support for Ambassador Kelly Craft after a package containing a suspicious substance and a death threat was mailed to the U.S. diplomat.

The incident came as tensions remain high in Canada over a brewing tariff fight, which erupted over Donald Trump’s criticism of Trudeau as “dishonest & weak,” the president’s refusal to endorse the final communique at the Group of Seven summit a week ago, and Canada’s outrage that tariffs have been applied under the pretext of national security.

White powder was found Thursday in an package addressed to Craft at the U.S. embassy in Ottawa and discovered by a mail-room employee at the ambassador’s residence, an embassy official said. The police were contacted, and tests determined the substance wasn’t harmful.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-16/canadian-officials-rush-to-support-u-s-envoy-after-death-threat
_______________________

The Tolerant Left. :roll:


Who says "the left" did anything? It could be a Russian. They're old pros at that sort of behaviour around the world.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:37 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Yep. I can't imagine you being quite so smug when Canada gets gobsmacked by a trade war and then the subsequent election sees a whole new nationalist party come into power as a result.

...

Meaning that as your country reacts to Trump and the new US trade policy it will necessarily move to the right and become protectionist, nationalist, and the result will be a resurgence of the very kind of Canadian identity that your douchebag PM once said had gone extinct.

$1:
“There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada,”


I don't know if you know this, Bart, but Canadian nationalism has frequently been left-leaning and socialist. It got to the point where nationalist Red Tories like George Grant could often get along better with the NDP than with the more continentalist Liberals. Canadian Prime Ministers seen as getting too close to the United States have paid a heavy political price more than once-Wilfrid Laurier when he proposed a trade agreement with the U.S., Louis St. Laurent when many people thought the Americans were getting too much influence up here, and Brian Mulroney based on his palling around with Ronald Reagan. In the first two cases, these things contributed to Laurier and St. Laurent getting run out of office on a rail. Mulroney realized his goose was cooked and decided to get out of office before Canadians threw him out, leaving Kim Campbell to suffer the fallout.

And what has mostly been overlooked in this thread has mentioned is that both Conservatives and NDPers and Greens are all lining up to support Trudeau behind this. Even Stephen Harper, who's about the last guy in Canada who'd have any reason to back Trudeau, is questioning Trump's priorities right now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:47 pm
 


Fun fact about the dispute that started this thread...Apparently there are quite a few American farmers who wouldn't mind a supply management system of their own:

$1:

Canada's system of supply management has been the target of heated political debate for the better part of half a century — but very few Canadians outside of the affected farm sectors actually understand how it works, or who foots the bill for stabilizing farmers' incomes.

Supply management is a system that allows specific commodity sectors — dairy, poultry and eggs — to limit the supply of their products to what Canadians are expected to consume in order to ensure predictable, stable prices.

While the federal government has played a role in supporting agricultural pricing policies for more than a century, the current system of supply management traces its origins to the 1960s — a period of overproduction due to technological advances that resulted in low prices for farmers.

While the federal government was keen to support farmers' incomes — and the votes that come with them — direct financial supports became too heavy a burden for the federal treasury to bear.

Bruce Muirhead, a historian at the University of Waterloo who has written extensively about supply management, said the government of the day felt that $50-55 million in annual support payments "would seriously upset the balance of the budget."

"This is one of the reasons we moved to a supply-managed system — government wanted to make farming sustainable on its own," Muirhead writes in his research paper 'Crying Over Spilt Milk'.

The United States, in contrast, has largely maintained support for the farming sector through subsidies. So Americans foot the bill for farm supports indirectly, through the taxes they pay, while Canadians pay for those supports directly, through higher prices for supply-managed products.

According to a Library of Parliament study of supply management, the system rests on three pillars: production control, pricing mechanisms and import control.

First pillar: quotas
Under supply management, a national marketing agency determines production amounts for each commodity and then sets production quotas for each province.

In order to sell their products, a farmer must hold a quota — basically a license to produce up to a set amount. The quota prevent market gluts that would cause prices to dip and disrupt farm incomes.

As of 2015, there were just over 16,000 quota holders in Canada — most of them dairy farmers in Ontario and Quebec. The quotas initially were given away for free but quickly became quite valuable; Canada's total quota is now valued at over $32 billion.

Muirhead told CBC News that while U.S. President Donald Trump has pushed Canada to dismantle the system to help U.S. farmers, many dairy farmers south of the border look at Canada's system of supply management with envy.

He said Wisconsin farmers in particular are beset by production issues that have caused prices to tank; the state has more cows than all of Canada and produces more milk.

"Those guys are massively in favour of supply management. It would stabilize their industry," he said.

Second pillar: minimum prices
Supply-managed producers are guaranteed a minimum price for their products. Through provincial marketing boards, farmers negotiate minimum "farm gate prices" with processors.

Critics maintain that Canadians pay too much for supply-managed products because the system inflates prices beyond what an open market would impose in order to keep farmers afloat.

But not everyone agrees — and the research is by no means unanimous in its conclusions.

In 2014, a Nielsen Company study commissioned by the Dairy Farmers of Canada showed that the price of Canadian dairy products compared favourably with prices in other countries.

The Montreal Economic Institute, a centre-right think tank, maintains that millions of Canadians are paying artificially high prices to benefit a few thousand farmers. A recent University of Manitoba study concluded that supply management costs wealthy families an average of $554 a year, with lower income families facing an average bill of more than $339 a year as a result of the policy.

"Supply management hurts all 35 million Canadian consumers by forcing them to pay consistently more for milk, chicken and eggs, as well as for other products that use these foodstuffs as ingredients," the institute wrote in a recent report on the matter. "Importantly, supply management disproportionately hurts poor Canadians."

Former Conservative leadership candidate Maxime Bernier, who nearly bested Andrew Scheer in the party's leadership contest last year, has become one of the country's most vocal opponents of supply management.

"The worst aspect of supply management, however, isn't that all Canadians who buy these products must pay more. It's that the poor, and households with children, are affected the most," Bernier wrote in a chapter from his forthcoming book.

"It should be clear that this is a transfer of wealth from the poorest to some of the richest in our society. Farming families working under supply management are indeed far richer than most Canadian families. Average after-tax income of all households in Canada is $69,100. By comparison, the average dairy farming household income is $147,800, and the number is $180,400 for poultry-farming households."

But dairy farmers point to retail prices for milk in jurisdictions that have deregulated their dairy industries, like the United Kingdom and Australia, as proof that supply management strikes the right balance.

In Australia, for example, prices for milk in the major cities rose 27 cents per litre in the three years after deregulation.

In New Zealand, the largest dairy exporting country in the world, milk prices are higher than they are here in Canada.

Third pillar: high tariffs
The third pillar of supply management is the imposition of high tariffs on foreign imports, a policy that makes these goods prohibitively expensive for Canadians, leaving domestic supply as virtually the only option for consumers.

It's this policy in particular that annoys Trump, who has said the policy is unfair to American farmers.

In fact, the main source of the financial problems plaguing some U.S. dairy operations is overproduction.

Canada sets tariff-rate quotas, meaning some foreign goods — about 10 per cent of Canada's domestic dairy market, for example — enter tariff-free, but all other imports face high tariffs to prevent foreign foods from flooding into the country.

In comparison, the United States gives foreign dairy products access to only 2.75 per cent of its domestic market. Europe offers just 0.5 per cent access for foreign poultry.



...That last bit is interesting. Even with supply management, we're more open to foreign dairy products than the U.S. and Europe put together.

Go figure.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:41 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Buying a luxury vehicle means that a dealership employing upwards of a hundred people stays in business, with jobs that prevent those people from falling down the social ladder and keeping them off of public assistance. And, most importantly, provides the income taxes and sales taxes that keep the governments running.

People buying things keep the country and the entire world economy running. This should be a no-brainer for everyone by now, given the four or five thousand years or so since basic capitalism first appeared in human societies.



No question that feckless consumerism creates jobs. But it is waste of resources nonetheless. It’s not a coincidence that as this consumerism household debt also went through the roof and retirement savings rates (or any savings) plummeted to all time lows. I think there might be a price to be paid for that as a society maybe I guarantee you the guy driving the purple Chevy Cobalt with an obnoxious noisemaker on the tailpipe and spinning rims is that guy with no savings, a mountain of debt and whose ideaof following the news and current events is reading celebrity tweets. Lh


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:52 pm
 


Tricks Tricks:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
We’re talking about people’s excessive consumption are we not?

Buying a luxury vehicle =/= excessive consumption in my opinion. Buying a vehicle every 12 months would be. Buying a single high quality product vs many shit quality products is the complete opposite of excessive consumption.


I’m not saying there’s no difference in quality between the best and the worst but beyond a certain point you’re just showing off and there’s no practical reason. A Rolls Royce is not more durable or reliable than Honda, Toyota or Nissan for example. People who drive a Rolls Royce do si because they want other people to see them driving a Rolls Royce. Period. And sports cars that can go several times the highest speed limit which nobody never actually drive is another example of that kind of total waste. It’s just silly to me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:00 am
 


I drove the Coq just because you could go 120 (which means get away with 130-135) once, got passed by dozens of F250s.
Then immediately had to gas up at some remote station for an absurd price.
I get your point, but it's somewhat self limiting to anyone with a functioning brain and limited wallet.
Couldn't run a muscle car in 1970 when 4.5L of gas was 39 cents. Still know dozens of people here who'll drive their F350 4x4s 200 km to Prince George and back again claiming they "save" gassing up 5c cheaper.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:11 am
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Tricks Tricks:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
We’re talking about people’s excessive consumption are we not?

Buying a luxury vehicle =/= excessive consumption in my opinion. Buying a vehicle every 12 months would be. Buying a single high quality product vs many shit quality products is the complete opposite of excessive consumption.


I’m not saying there’s no difference in quality between the best and the worst but beyond a certain point you’re just showing off and there’s no practical reason. A Rolls Royce is not more durable or reliable than Honda, Toyota or Nissan for example. People who drive a Rolls Royce do si because they want other people to see them driving a Rolls Royce. Period. And sports cars that can go several times the highest speed limit which nobody never actually drive is another example of that kind of total waste. It’s just silly to me.

Silly to you, not to them. You're not the arbiter of what is waste. Buying a sports car doesn't consume any more that buying a toyota does, within reason, and provides a hell of a lot more boon to the economy.


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