[Delwin]

Anyway, this is the latest, it appears as though talks have at least begun and there is now a question of terms and of both sides willingness to disengage. There are obviously terms that still need to be addressed.

I think it says something about Al-Sisi's Leadership that he has chosen to act as a mediator between the 2 sides despite his own tension with Hamas. I have respect for him as a leader and commend his ability to put aside his differences to attempt to bring stability to the region:

$1:

Israel approved an Egyptian-proposed deal that would halt the week-old Gaza shelling war on Tuesday but the Palestinian territory's dominant Hamas Islamists responded suspiciously, saying they had not been consulted by Cairo.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/1 ... 4D20140715

[BRAH]

Hamas rejects cease fire.

[Delwin]

Yeah, I was really hoping that they would accept the offer for the sake of the civilian casualties. The members of the Arab league are meeting in Egypt in a few hours to discuss it, hopefully after some posturing, they can work something out. Maybe a return of the 400 prisoners whom were arrested after the disappearance of the murdered Israeli teens could save face for Hamas and bring an end to it. I think it is fair to say that all 400 could not have taken part in or had knowledge of the kidnapping.

I think the sticking point here is, Hamas represents the far right of the population and see a need to appease their base in order to maintain any support. If they look soft, they will likely be finished politically, which we can only hope for.

Their refusal looks to be political and is clearly not in the interest of the Palestinian people. Most of what I have read indicates the civilian population just wants this to end and to get back to some semblance of normalcy, who could blame them. I cross my fingers that the Arab League can exert enough influence to close the deal. They have encouraged Hamas to accept the deal as well, so everyone else is on board.

[BRAH]

Hamas is their own worst enemy in rejecting this cease fire because not only does it give it's critics in Egypt and Palestine more clout it could also open a window for more dangerous extremists like ISIS to make a play for political control, which has been pointed out in this thread.

[Delwin]

Well, it looks as though the offer is not dead in the water yet, Hamas has made a counter offer which Israel is deliberating now:

$1:

Hamas’ demands
Hamas appeared to reject the idea, with spokesman Fawzi Barhum saying the group would not accept a truce without a full-fledged deal to end hostilities.
Hamas officials say they will not accept "calm for calm." The group is demanding an easing of an Israeli-Egyptian blockade that has ground Gaza's economy to a standstill and that Israel release dozens of prisoners who were arrested in a recent West Bank crackdown following the abductions of the Israeli youths.
With the death toll mounting, both sides have come under increasing international pressure to halt the fighting.
Egypt Foreign Minister Sameh Shukri said there is "no alternative but return to the truce" of November 2012, and added that Egypt contacted all the parties, including the Palestinian leadership, different Palestinian factions, and Israeli authorities in addition to Arab and international parties. Such contacts led to shaping up the proposal which called for cease-fire.
"Egypt stresses the international responsibility toward what is happening in Palestine," he said.
In a speech broadcast on Al-Jazeera, Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader in Gaza, confirmed there was "diplomatic movement."
"The problem is not going back to the agreement on calm because we want this aggression to stop," he said. "The siege must stop and Gaza people need to live in dignity."

$1:

An Israeli official said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would convene his Security Cabinet on Tuesday morning to discuss the proposal. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/602176

Both parties face opposition at home from the hawks, but if they can both come out appearing to have made gains it could still happen.

Like they say in sales, a good negotiation is one where both parties walk equally unhappy.

[BartSimpson]

BRAH BRAH:

Hamas rejects cease fire.

Then I hope they enjoy meeting their god.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Delwin Delwin:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Delwin Delwin:

Yeah I don't have 25 mins to kill, everyone I posted is pro-Israel. They are in fact Israeli, they are also pro-human rights and anti-occupation. And I watched a few minutes, seems pretty random.

It's cute when you post blogs and opinions, or argue about semantics or border guards. It's easier than reading the UNSCOP report I left a link to laying out in no uncertain terms, the war of extermination against Israel that Palestine was, and still is a willing participant of. They never had ANY intention of honouring the border put forth by the UN, even went so far as to say it will "be a line of fire and blood", yet people like you whine about Israeli expansion.

You see, in the logical world you don't get to announce that you will defy a UN resolution, initiate a war of extermination based on said defiance and then complain about genocide when you consistently get your ass handed to you while your civilians are bombed and have their land taken away.

The argument that the Palestinians are victims is only partially correct. They are victims of their own twisted regime. Ideological talking points do not trump actual facts and history, as much as you may want them to.

That's funny, it was Bart who brought up border guards, apparently the strength of the friendship between 2 countries is directly related to the calibre of the weapons on the border, you'll have to ask him about the formula.

As for the UN resolution, are you serious ? Israel has been defying the UN borders since the beginning and has also vowed never to honor them and never to end the occupation and never to cede the land west of Jordan or the part of Jerusalem that belongs to the Palestinians.

$1:

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu vowed Tuesday evening in a passionate address marking the start of Jerusalem Day “never” to divide Jerusalem.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breakin ... 014/05/28/

Wow, so 70 years AFTER the muslims and Palestinians announced they don't give a shit about the border and will exterminate the Israeli's you find Benny's attitude shocking?? Really?? Considering that every time Israel has ceded land back to Palestine the pigs immediately used it to attack Israel, I'm not even the least bit surprised by Yahoo's words.

Delwin Delwin:

$1:

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let’s be polite, naive.

Both Kerry and the many Western leaders ARE naïve. They see the shit that muslims pull in our western nations and then still blame Israel for all the violence in the Middle East. Living life as an ostrich isn't living.

Delwin Delwin:

It was 10 years ago the UN had declared the wall illegal:

$1:

9 July 2004 – The International Court of Justice (ICJ) issued an advisory opinion today that Israel's building of a barrier in the occupied Palestinian territory is illegal and said construction must stop immediately and Israel should make reparations for any damage caused.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=11292&

But I guess suicide bombing school buses and indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians is perfectly kosher. Check. Keep in mind that the wall was a RESPONSE to naked aggression from Palestine.

But also:

Delwin Delwin:

U.N. rights investigator accuses Israel of 'ethnic cleansing'
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/2 ... JM20140321

Even Palestine's own records prove that statement to be utter bullshit. Since the 1950s Palestinians have been one of the fastest growing demographics in the Middle East.

Delwin Delwin:

Also, UN resolution 446 determined that the settlement were illegal in 1979 and Israel has been ignoring international law ever since, as they have been in the current conflict.

Again, suicide bombing school buses, rocket attacks on non-military targets, a DECLARED war of extermination all are going to cause you loss of the lands you attack from. But it's nice to see you find occupation more reprehensible than outright murder and terrorism.

Delwin Delwin:

Also:

$1:

The cessation of such human rights violations could only be brought about by the dissolution of the occupation of the territories held by Israel since 1967, he said, warning that should negotiations between Israel and the State of Palestine falter and the unsatisfactory conditions continue, “simmering popular discontent could result in another round of serious violence”.

Which is similar to what I said earlier. The longer the PALs continue to prosecute their war of extermination against Israel, the easier it's going to be for the average Israeli to stomache some kind of extremist govt. But again, your argument above is crap. Israel has ceded land back to Palestine in the past only to be attacked from those very lands. The cessation of the occupation can only be brought to an end when the Palestinians stop their bullshit and accept the fact that Israel is there to stay. There's a lesson to be learned here. If you're going to declare an illegal war of extermination on someone, don't be a little bitch about it when it all blows up in your face.

Delwin Delwin:

$1:

Israel’s illegal settlement under the full protection of its military forces proceeded apace, undermining the contiguity of the West Bank and the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination. Such illegal behaviour and refusal to commit to the internationally endorsed parameters for the two-State solution once again confirmed that Israel’s expansionist policies totally contradicted its claimed commitment to peace. “The international community must act to prevent a total collapse of these prospects of peace after so many years of efforts and support for a peaceful solution,” he urged.

Palestine had a shot at statehood and self-determination some years ago. THEY blew their chance, not Israel. And why is it when Israel retaliates against naked aggression from Palestine they are always considered the aggressors?

I can't believe you brought up a UN resolution. The UN has a committee dedicated to Israel's violation of UN resolutions. Israel doesn't get to preach international law to anyone, until they start abiding by it.

So you didn't bother to read the UN report I linked to, fine. I'm not surprised actually. It wasn't a link to a resolution, it's a link to special report FOR the UN.
But don't bother reading it, it's obvious you don't like facts that contradict your beliefs.

[BartSimpson]

A Hispanic woman shuts down a 'moderate' moslem:

http://www.mrctv.org/sites/default/file ... 27748.html

[Delwin]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

So you didn't bother to read the UN report I linked to, fine. I'm not surprised actually. It wasn't a link to a resolution, it's a link to special report FOR the UN.
But don't bother reading it, it's obvious you don't like facts that contradict your beliefs.

Of course it was a link to the response to a resolution, resolution 181:

$1:

By no means shall we permit the resolution of the United Nations to partition Palestine.

Did you read it ? Page 4.

And it refers to a statement made by Abdul Rahman Hassan Azzam, Egyptian born secretary general of the Arab League from 1945 to 1952, as you said 70 years ago. This is the justification of Israels refusal to adhere to international law pertaining to Palestine? I don't really see it.

[Delwin]

Your source misrepresents the fire and blood line as having come from Jamal Husseini from the Palestinian Arab Higher committee. It didn't.

$1:

The Arab League Secretary, Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha, said after the UN vote, "The partition line will be nothing but a line of fire and blood." (Bregman Ahron and El-Tahri, Jihan, Israel and the Arabs, TVbooks, N.Y. 1998 p. 28).

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 3633464030

$1:

"The partition line shall be nothing but a line of fire and blood," Azzam Pasha warned

http://zionism-israel.com/his/Palestine_Nakba.htm

[Goober911]

http://time.com/2986107/israel-gaza-hamas-ceasefire/

Hamas felt it wasn't consulted properly by the Egyptians brokering the truce — and that it could have been offered more

The morning started with a slight patina of optimism. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu convened his cabinet at 7am, two hours before an Egyptian-proposed cease-fire with Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups in Gaza was due to take effect.
More
Israel Accepts Egypt’s Cease-Fire Plan, but Hamas Vows to Keep FightingObama ‘Encouraged’ by Gaza Cease-Fire ProposalShe Wanted to Be a Flower Girl. She Needed a Wedding. NBC NewsThis Cashier Told Obama A Gay Sex Joke And Got The Best Reaction Huffington PostPope Speaks on Border Crisis: Migrant Kids Should Be 'Welcomed' NBC News

They voted in favor of the cease-fire, with Netanyahu’s two most prominent hardline coalition partners – Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Economy Minister Naftali Bennett – voting against.

By 9am, the Israel Air Force (IAF) strikes on the Gaza Strip ceased, exactly one week since the operation it dubbed “Protective Edge” began. But in the tense hours that followed, Hamas made it clear through various venues that it has no intention of holding its fire just yet, and sent more than 30 rockets careening into southern and central Israel. The Iron Dome shot several of them down, but an Israeli soldier was lightly injured by shrapnel from a rocket explosion in the town of Sderot, and two additional rockets exploded in the Ashkelon area, causing fires. Hamas also said it fired a Syrian-made rocket at Haifa, Haaretz reported.

Netanyahu warned that Israel’s appetite for restraint wouldn’t last long. “We accepted the Egyptian cease-fire proposal to give an opportunity to demilitarize the Gaza Strip from rockets. If Hamas continues to fire at Israel, Israel will have the international legitimacy to take action,” he said at midday.

Soon after, the IAF carried out a single airstrike on the northern Gaza Strip, with no causalities reported.

It might be hard to fathom why Hamas leaders would blow an opportunity for a cease-fire, given the 192 Gazans killed and over 1,400 wounded in the past week, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. The reason: the proposal fashioned by Egypt was not discussed with Hamas leaders, who feel it suits Israel far more than they.

[Delwin]

Re:Pubic Enemy's Post.

$1:

Even Palestine's own records prove that statement to be utter bullshit. Since the 1950s Palestinians have been one of the fastest growing demographics in the Middle East.

Ethnic cleansing refers to the removal of a populace from an area irrespective of their birth rate.

$1:

Again, suicide bombing school buses, rocket attacks on non-military targets, a DECLARED war of extermination all are going to cause you loss of the lands you attack from. But it's nice to see you find occupation more reprehensible than outright murder and terrorism.

Right, we know there are terrorist extemists in Palestine, and we are well aware of the reasons for them. This isn't a justification for the collective punishment of a population, and is certainly not in keeping with the Jewish tradition:
Deuteronomy 24:16: “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.”

$1:

Which is similar to what I said earlier. The longer the PALs continue to prosecute their war of extermination against Israel,

War of extermination? You mean like how since January 2005, the conflict has killed 4,006 people, of whom 168 have been Israeli and 3,838 Palestinians . (Who is being exterminated in that equation ?)
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/ch ... ict-deaths

$1:

So you didn't bother to read the UN report I linked to, fine. I'm not surprised actually. It wasn't a link to a resolution, it's a link to special report FOR the UN.
But don't bother reading it, it's obvious you don't like facts that contradict your beliefs.

See previous 2 posts.

[BartSimpson]

Delwin Delwin:

War of extermination? You mean like how since January 2005, the conflict has killed 4,006 people, of whom 168 have been Israeli and 3,838 Palestinians . (Who is being exterminated in that equation ?)

The Palestinians are bad at what they do. So what?

That the Palestinians are waging a war they're not capable of winning does not mean that the Israelis have to avoid killing them.

In the immortal words of Captain Malcolm Reynolds:

$1:

When someone tries to kill you then you try to kill them right back!

That the Israelis have a knack for kiling people who try to kill Israelis is not an indicator of any moral failure on their part. While this 'disparity' in the death toll obviously offends your twisted liberal sense of 'fairness' it is utterly irrelevant in the real world.

[DrCaleb]

And yet, if Israelis were to randomly fire unguided missiles that indiscriminately target women and children in Gaza, they'd be vilified for it.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And yet, if Israelis were to randomly fire unguided missiles that indiscriminately target women and children in Gaza, they'd be vilified for it.

Exactly.