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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:12 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
If I were Ford, I'd start defending myself with lawsuits using the City to fund the lawyers.

No you wouldn't, unless you're even dumber than Ford. Surely he knows that lying to the cameras is a different thing altogether from lying under oath in a court of law.


That's because you think Ford is guilty...without any evidence at all. Typical of you.

It's not lying when you're telling the truth and there's no video to back the Star up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:16 am
 


You keep claiming there is no evidence, which is incorrect. There's lots of evidence.

But if you're right and this is all bullshit, there will be a lawsuit.

If there isn't a lawsuit, then Ford is guilty because that's the only reason he wouldn't take it to court. I suspect it'll never see a courtroom and if that's the case, I'm right and you're wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:17 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
You keep claiming there is no evidence, which is incorrect. There's lots of evidence.

But if you're right and this is all bullshit, there will be a lawsuit.

If there isn't a lawsuit, then Ford is guilty because that's the only reason he wouldn't take it to court. I suspect it'll never see a courtroom and if that's the case, I'm right and you're wrong.


What evidence?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:19 am
 


The statements of the people who've come forward and shared what they saw with Star reporters, Globe and Mail reporters and Gawker. Also the people who saw the video. Also the staffers who can report on what they observed.

There are lots of other types of evidence than video evidence. People are allowed to testify about what they see.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:22 am
 


raydan raydan:
Even Time published a Ford story.

Toronto Mayor Singlehandedly Makes Canadian Politics Interesting Again
http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/04/to ... z2VLsTGsOL



Oh, Good Lord :roll: :roll:

Join in with the other twats in Toronto who actually think Toronto matters to the world.

Trust me, nobody and I mean no body gives a shit about Toronto outside Toronto,
and even less outside Canada.

I have been been in cities than can move the world. Toronto isn't even on the list,
never mind showing up at the bottom.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:22 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
The statements of the people who've come forward and shared what they saw with Star reporters, Globe and Mail reporters and Gawker. Also the people who saw the video. Also the staffers who can report on what they observed.

There are lots of other types of evidence than video evidence. People are allowed to testify about what they see.




ROTFL ROTFL


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:24 am
 


So the things people observe are not evidence then? Since when?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:29 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
The statements of the people who've come forward and shared what they saw with Star reporters, Globe and Mail reporters and Gawker. Also the people who saw the video. Also the staffers who can report on what they observed.

There are lots of other types of evidence than video evidence. People are allowed to testify about what they see.


And it comes down to credibility. Anonymous video from drug dealers. Watching it on a cell phone. Toronto Star....video now 'gone'.

Zero credibility. Zero actual evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:37 am
 


Okay then, let's say you got jumped on the street and had the shit kicked out of you. It just so happens that the incident was seen by two separate individuals who observed the attack from separate points of view. They don't know you or each other. They are able to identify the attacker. They can tell the police/court/Toronto Star Reporters exactly what they observed and their stories corroborate one another.

Is their evidence of an assault or is there not?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:44 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
Okay then, let's say you got jumped on the street and had the shit kicked out of you. It just so happens that the incident was seen by two separate individuals who observed the attack from separate points of view. They don't know you or each other. They are able to identify the attacker. They can tell the police/court/star reports exactly what they observed and their stories corroborate one another.

Is their evidence of an assault or is there not?


There's a difference between witnessing something in person and watching it on a cell phone.

If anyone was actually there with the Mayor smoking crack and shared his/her experience fine.....but that's not what happened here.

Put yourself in the same shoes.

Let's say someone (or a few people from a company) claim they saw a video of you doing something illegal on a cell phone video and decided to go public about it and essentially, ruin your reputation within your profession.

Does that amount of 'evidence' qualify when it's your reputation at stake?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:47 am
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
If there isn't a lawsuit, then Ford is guilty because that's the only reason he wouldn't take it to court. I suspect it'll never see a courtroom and if that's the case, I'm right and you're wrong.


That is not necessarily true.

Ford could earn a lot of brownie points with Joe Public if he states (publicly)that the allegations are false, they have no hard evidence, but that he will not be taking it to the courts as this is just part of life as a politician (in regards to the media mill). If he tops that off with a good old public "let's mend fences" statement to The Star (and any other media outlets that ran this fervently), he could be mayor for a long, long time.

I, personally, think that he was just handed some gold PR material...if there is no actual hard evidence, of course

Edit to add:

If the allegations are actually true, he could do the same by publicly admitting the problem and getting treatment. Worked for King Ralph, and I don't think he even had success with treatment.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:47 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
So the things people observe are not evidence then? Since when?



True and its about time I came out and said I saw Ford smoking crack behind city hall once when I was visiting last summer. I took a picture but someone stole my cellphone since then.

My evidence is rock solid because, well, I said it therefor it must be true :P

If I said I saw someone, say I knew his name, break into my neighbors house. The cops would go to him but he would get what is called a trail, if it got that far, where he would have to give an alibi and other evidence plus likely something else linking him to the crime would have to be brought forth. The problem with the Ford thing is there is no evidence anything happened (Witness made up the crime and crime scene) therefore it is impossible to for Ford to disprove he did not do something that does not technically exist.

This would be akin to me saying I saw someone break into # 5 Cherry lane and steal a stereo yet there is no #5 Cherry lane (there was officer, really, it was right there yesterday) and the guy I accused does not have a stereo. Fact is the cops would never look for the stereo once they realized there was no crime scene or evidence of a crime.

Could you imagine if we could throw those we don't like in jail so easy by just accusing them of a crime with no evidence of one or proof beyond our word? I'd have a big list to get tossed in jail I don't like.

This is why we are considered innocent until proven guilty in our society. Like it or not, Ford is innocent until proven otherwise by at least any shred of physical evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:55 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
My real beef is Lemmy trying to suggest he gives a rats-ass about a man he's trashed over and over again.

How would you feel if I came out and expressed concern for Theresa Spence and her weight? Would there be any credibility to that based on my frequent insults of the woman? Fuck no. You'd call me out on it right away.


Well check the Toronto Star headline this morning:

Local Progs Wish Crack-Huffin' Fatso a Long, Happy Life.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:01 pm
 


Lemmy Lemmy:
Okay then, let's say you got jumped on the street and had the shit kicked out of you. It just so happens that the incident was seen by two separate individuals who observed the attack from separate points of view. They don't know you or each other. They are able to identify the attacker. They can tell the police/court/Toronto Star Reporters exactly what they observed and their stories corroborate one another.

Is their evidence of an assault or is there not?


Your example is too simplistic, except for third rate cop and lawyer shows. If the other two were willing to testify then I'm assuming once the attack was over they helped the victim, called the cops. The cops showed up and saw all three there at once and all gave evidence at once and it was clear there were wounds on the victim.

In the Ford case we have witnesses who started coming out after one guy mentioned the video (Possible bandwagon scenario). If you want to parallel the Ford thing to a mugging it would sound more like this. One guy claimed a notable person beat him up but he has no injuries to prove it and no one who was there to back him up. It gets in the news and over a week two other guys come forward to say they saw a video of the attack and the notable person was in it but can't find the person who showed them the video. Result, cops laugh them out of the station and even mull over charging him with making a false police report.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:02 pm
 


The freaky thing is that Grumpy Cat looks grumpy but really isn't. She's really just a happy little grumpy lookin' cat. 8O


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