Press the + sign under the username and avatar of the person you want to "thumbs up". This is called "reputation" here. You already got some yourself.
See those green squares under almost every body's name? Some have it disabled, but most keep it open, like you have. If you see squares, you can give rep.[/quote] Thanks I must have missed that. Have to go over some threads as there have been a number of excellent posts that I read.
Goober911
Forum Elite
Posts: 1046
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:25 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
stratos stratos:
PostFactum PostFactum:
Guys made this in internet, those who live in Ukraine and supports it put point on the map on their living place and it starts shining in real time.
Too bad there wasn't more support from the little dots in the East . . .
A very tense situation where many of these insurgents are local gangs. Showing support for the Govt. can have violent repercussions.
DrCaleb
CKA Moderator
Posts: 53473
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:31 pm
Goober911 Goober911:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Too bad there wasn't more support from the little dots in the East . . .
A very tense situation where many of these insurgents are local gangs. Showing support for the Govt. can have violent repercussions.
(I was giving a little shout out to my friend Andy, who thought we should get some on-the-ground perspective from Ukrainian supporters in the Eastern Ukraine, not just our friend from the Western Ukraine)
stratos
CKA Uber
Posts: 18770
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:35 pm
$1:
(I was giving a little shout out to my friend Andy, who thought we should get some on-the-ground perspective from Ukrainian supporters in the Eastern Ukraine, not just our friend from the Western Ukraine)
Zipperfish
CKA Uber
Posts: 21665
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:53 pm
[/quote]Thanks I must have missed that. Have to go over some threads as there have been a number of excellent posts that I read.[/quote]
If you press one of the little green boxes under your nickname, you can see who has "repped" you (positive or negative).
Goober911
Forum Elite
Posts: 1046
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:09 pm
stratos stratos:
$1:
(I was giving a little shout out to my friend Andy, who thought we should get some on-the-ground perspective from Ukrainian supporters in the Eastern Ukraine, not just our friend from the Western Ukraine)
Man you are quite the dancer.
Goober911
Forum Elite
Posts: 1046
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:16 pm
PostFactum PostFactum:
stratos stratos:
Wait one minute AndyT first you said:
"In East Ukraine, Russia can stir the shit with a small number of irregulars because there already are large numbers of people supporting Russia."
This implies that the east has vast support and thus numbers of people wanting to join Russia.
Then you go on to say
$1:
How do the insurgents plan to hold a referendum? They don't control most of the East - life is going on there as usual. They have some checkpoints and hold some buildings.
Which implies that there is only a small support for the Russian movement.
You love to say you are getting your info from news and that it is reliable because they are there on the ground at the front line. Well then which is it, the movement in East Ukraine has a lot of backing and is entrenched or that it is just a minor deal with only a few people involved while the rest just carry on.
Seems you are spewing a variety of conflicting info to back up what ever current posting you wish to make.
Please do not touch him, a crap bomb will explode again.
Like this??
or perhaps
ShepherdsDog
CKA Uber
Posts: 42160
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:52 pm
$1:
you are spewing a variety of conflicting info
That's andyt's standard MO he takes contradictory positions on topics in different threads at different times. He's not here to debate, he's here to stir up shit, and he usually does so with bare hands. He'll claim a position, or make a statement and then condemn someone else for saying the same thing.....that is when he's just not cutting and pasting.
andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:08 pm
stratos stratos:
Wait one minute AndyT first you said:
"In East Ukraine, Russia can stir the shit with a small number of irregulars because there already are large numbers of people supporting Russia."
This implies that the east has vast support and thus numbers of people wanting to join Russia.
Then you go on to say
$1:
How do the insurgents plan to hold a referendum? They don't control most of the East - life is going on there as usual. They have some checkpoints and hold some buildings.
Which implies that there is only a small support for the Russian movement.
You love to say you are getting your info from news and that it is reliable because they are there on the ground at the front line. Well then which is it, the movement in East Ukraine has a lot of backing and is entrenched or that it is just a minor deal with only a few people involved while the rest just carry on.
Seems you are spewing a variety of conflicting info to back up what ever current posting you wish to make.
I posted the new poll I read that said 70% of people in east Ukraine don't want to join Russia. But, that same poll found that they don't trust Kyiv either. The want more autonomy as region.
Insurgents are not the population. They are quite a small group, but were able to stir so much shit because they were unopposed by Ukraine and because people did come out to support them. That's how those armored cars were taken from the Ukrainian soldiers - by civilians, without violence. That's how that girl got shot - taking food to an insurgent checkpoint.
The rest carrying on doesn't mean they are pro-West, it just means they are not insurgents. When they're not taking armored cars away from the soldiers or bringing food to the insurgents, they are carrying on with normal life.
Those people do want change in how Ukraine is governed, they don't want to join Russia, they also want more freedom from being ruled by Kyiv, especially after the interim govt passed those anti-Russian laws.
I know you and shep et all find it hard to keep this big confusing picture in mind, want to paint it all black and white, good and bad but it's not. It's a lot more complicated. And the people who support the insurgents and greater autonomy aren't doing so at the barrel of a gun or by being paid off as PF would have it. They see their interests lying more with Russia than the EU.
What I don't understand, with the insurgents (remember that's just a small number, not everybody that is pro-russia is an insurgent) holding so little actual territory how they plan to hold a referendum unless the interim govt allows it or the civilians backing them go in the streets. Seems to me this could get very ugly.
andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:19 pm
$1:
Instead of just watching Fox news or thinking PF has all the good info on Ukraine, maybe read this guy. He's on the ground there and providing solid reporting and analysis:
the Russian president appeared to do an uncharacteristic about-face Wednesday... Whether pro-Russian separatists, who often have demonstrated minds of their own, will heed Putin’s thunderbolts is one of many open questions. The immediate reaction of their leadership was to say they would gather Thursday to discuss the question.
Something else the secessionists will have to consider is that Putin also said Wednesday that the May 25 Ukrainian presidential elections are “a step in the right direction,” if the rights of the ethnic-Russian minority are respected. Only 24 hours earlier, his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, had demanded that the ballot be postponed. And Putin’s spokesman had previously described the election as “absurd.”...
Could Russia’s climbdown, if that is what it was, have been because of the bite of western sanctions and the threat of more if it continued to bully Ukraine? Perhaps, but frankly, the sanctions have been fairly tame.
Could Putin’s change of heart have been because while seizing Crimea from Ukraine in March was easy, every indication is that a military intervention in Ukraine, or open military support for separatists there, would result in a protracted, brutal conflict similar to those that once rent the Balkans?
Or was it the high cost of taking responsibility for Crimea, which is an economic basket case, or the potential for more staggering bills if Moscow became responsible for millions more eastern Ukrainians? That’s possible, as the Russian economy is in rough shape anyway, but that has not previously been much of a consideration in Russia’s thinking.
Yet another factor may be that Putin was disappointed that despite fiery nationalist rhetoric from Moscow, and a lot of logistical support for separatist fighters, there had not been a widespread popular uprising against Kyiv in eastern Ukraine. Rather, there have been isolated examples of opportunistic thuggery by shadowy groups of men, armed with clubs and wearing masks, who claimed to love Russia.
Polls showing that more than 70 per cent of the people in the east wish to remain Ukrainian have not helped Russia’s ambitions here. However, it must be said that whether for or against closer ties with Russia, virtually the entire Donbass mining region has been demanding a new constitutional deal from Kyiv with much stronger regional powers...
Plans for Sunday’s referendum are already far advanced. Voter rolls had been prepared. Three million ballots had been printed. But even the organizers have admitted they didn’t expect more than a third of the population to come out and vote.
Whether Putin was sincere about withdrawing his troops from the border and respecting the Ukrainian presidential elections, there is also the grave matter of the Russian takeover of Crimea and what exactly the Russian leader meant about the need for dialogue over Ukraine’s future. Perhaps the only certainty is that relations between the Kremlin and the West are likely to remain immensely complicated and volatile for a long time.
"In East Ukraine, Russia can stir the shit with a small number of irregulars because there already are large numbers of people supporting Russia."
This implies that the east has vast support and thus numbers of people wanting to join Russia.
Then you go on to say
$1:
How do the insurgents plan to hold a referendum? They don't control most of the East - life is going on there as usual. They have some checkpoints and hold some buildings.
Which implies that there is only a small support for the Russian movement.
You love to say you are getting your info from news and that it is reliable because they are there on the ground at the front line. Well then which is it, the movement in East Ukraine has a lot of backing and is entrenched or that it is just a minor deal with only a few people involved while the rest just carry on.
Seems you are spewing a variety of conflicting info to back up what ever current posting you wish to make.
I posted the new poll I read that said 70% of people in east Ukraine don't want to join Russia. But, that same poll found that they don't trust Kyiv either. The want more autonomy as region.
Insurgents are not the population. They are quite a small group, but were able to stir so much shit because they were unopposed by Ukraine and because people did come out to support them. That's how those armored cars were taken from the Ukrainian soldiers - by civilians, without violence. That's how that girl got shot - taking food to an insurgent checkpoint.
The rest carrying on doesn't mean they are pro-West, it just means they are not insurgents. When they're not taking armored cars away from the soldiers or bringing food to the insurgents, they are carrying on with normal life.
Those people do want change in how Ukraine is governed, they don't want to join Russia, they also want more freedom from being ruled by Kyiv, especially after the interim govt passed those anti-Russian laws.
I know you and shep et all find it hard to keep this big confusing picture in mind, want to paint it all black and white, good and bad but it's not. It's a lot more complicated. And the people who support the insurgents and greater autonomy aren't doing so at the barrel of a gun or by being paid off as PF would have it. They see their interests lying more with Russia than the EU.
What I don't understand, with the insurgents (remember that's just a small number, not everybody that is pro-russia is an insurgent) holding so little actual territory how they plan to hold a referendum unless the interim govt allows it or the civilians backing them go in the streets. Seems to me this could get very ugly.
Complicated, you say, really, when did you arrive at that point?
Last edited by Public_Domain on Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PostFactum
CKA Elite
Posts: 4765
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 am
This morning people shout "shame" to separatists in Mariupol and support words for "Azov"(One of Ukrainian special force,for example USA has SWAT) while going near separatists, who are trying to capture military building and have fight with Azov.
PostFactum
CKA Elite
Posts: 4765
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:40 am
So for today (We were expecting much worse, as today it is 9-th of May, but thanks to God and police everything is more-less): 1. In Lugansk oblast 2 cars were moving along the road, separatists wanted to stop them for check but they didn't stop, Russians opened fire. In one car there was a man, in the second one a woman with 10 years old girl. Man and woman are dead, kid was wounded and now is in Hospital. 2. SBU captured two guys who had to make some diversions on Ukrainian territory, they had instructions from Russian FSB. 3. In the morning, in Kyiv, separatists put in fire TV station cables, Ukrainian channels were offline half of the day. TV stations woks on reserve generator, firefighters extinguished fire. 4. Separatists occupied Police station in Mariupol, they were surrounded by Ukrainian forces, 20 separatists killed, 4 are captured. 1 Ukrainian soldier dead, 5 wounded. 5. In Mariupol, separatists were trying to capture military base (You can see that people on 9-th of May are going near this base, while celebrating victory day in my upper post). 6. In Konstyantinivka, the priest went to Separatists to speak, they killed him. Folks say that it were Chechenians. 7. In Harkiv and Dnipropetrovsk, by police were captured groups of armored separatists. 8. In Kyiv were found 2 cars full of weapons near places where people were celebrating 9-th of May. Owner of one is captured. 9. Russia promises to stop gas transfer to Ukraine because of last actions by Ukrainian government. 10. The ex head of Odesa police was found and captured, few hours ago he was transferred to Kyiv. 11. On East Ukraine people are making self defense groups against separatists. 12. In Donezk separatists captured weapons from prison guardians. 13. I Lugansk oblast separatists took weapons from border guardians. 14. Mariupol government main building is in fire, separatists are inside, fighting with Ukrainian forces which are outside. 15. Putin arrived to Crimea parade of 9-th of May, everywhere were posters with his face and flags with the name of his party, Russian flags too. 16. Russian gave 2 milliard $ to Belarussia.