[saturn_656]

Scape Scape:

@commanderkai Did we invade Russia in 1990 when they sold their nukes on the black market? All we can do it stop it before it happens by keeping them stable, once humpty dumpty falls there is no way to put him back together again.

Let Pakistan fail.

India will take care of them.

[Bibbi]

A moderate Taliban is like a moderate terrorist. There is no such thing.

[Zipperfish]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I'm sure the NATO soldiers who come under fire in Afghanistan care about that distinction.

They should. ONe should have, I imagine, some basic concept of the enemy.

[EyeBrock]

At some time, somebody will have to strike a deal with the Taleban to end the war. If Afghanistan is happy with staying in the stoneage, let them have their way.

We have tried to make their lives better but it appears they don't dig the way we do business.

Every war not won always ends with some negotiation. Otherwise it just carries on.

[commanderkai]

Scape Scape:

@commanderkai Did we invade Russia in 1990 when they sold their nukes on the black market? All we can do it stop it before it happens by keeping them stable, once humpty dumpty falls there is no way to put him back together again.

Pakistan already HAS done that. Remember Khan? The guy who basically sold nuclear secrets to just about everyone? Yeah, that guy.

Now let's just...analyze the ideas about keeping them stable or neutralizing the main threat(and if anybody has any others off the top of their head, toss them out.

Tossing money at them ->Failure, and it'll keep failing

Nuke neutralization through airstrikes/SpecOps -> We'll never get all of them, and that'll just cause a boatload of problems later

Regime change through SpecOps -> It'll cause a vacuum that will probably cause even more instability than before, unless a new government is ready to take power (thus meaning a military one)

Funding rebel groups -> The enemy of the enemy isn't our friend, since they supply the our other enemy (AQ/Taliban)

UN peacekeepers -> Do you really need an explanation why this would fail? If you want examples of their incompetence, see just about every peacekeeping operation ever. Plus you can't keep a peace that isn't there.

Nudging India/China to put pressure -> Cornering a wild animal will make it lash out

Economic sanctions/blockade -> See above, except that you're making whatever civilian population even more desperate

Starting a proxy war -> Pakistan is already pushing that rather well against India, considering their state sponsored terrorism in India.

Conventional invasion -> There might be four nations that can pull this off. USA, India, China, and the EU. The USA won't, both with Obama's appeasement tactics, isolationism, and the fact that it'll be condemned just like Iraq was. India could, but that'll probably start WWIII, China won't because they're the world's arms dealers, just like Russia, and the EU is full of pacifists/cowards.

Tactical nuclear strikes on their nuclear facilities/weapons ->Opening pandora's box.

Strategic nuclear war -> Basically endgame.

Now, my analysis of the options is simplistic and quick, not knowing the full arsenal of India, Pakistan, and America's weapons, strategies, and tactics, but from a purely civilian perspective, there is no easy, simple solution to Pakistan, in the end, it'll be India who'll make the decisions, and not the USA.

[sandorski]

4 or 5 years ago a Republican Senator(don't recall his name) was calling for the same. The Taliban are not great people, but if they can be convinced(doubt it, but)to stop fighting it's worth the effort. If not, then it's business as usual, there's just no harm in trying.

[Scape]

It's hard to deal with an ideologue when your own position is based on ideology. The Taliban may be ruthless goat herding fundamentalists but this regional authority is the only dominate one that has the resiliency to survive there. There is no way to eradicate them but we can single out the ones that are beyond reprieve that have sworn to follow al-qaeda.

[commanderkai]

Scape Scape:

There is no way to eradicate them but we can single out the ones that are beyond reprieve that have sworn to follow al-qaeda.

So how shall we do that Scape? Is there a multiple choice questionnaire that we'll give to potential candidates? Will we connect them to lie detectors?

Its not as simple as it you make it out to be, since any attempt at a meeting might be met with a suicide bomber, or infiltration force by the Taliban into either the government, or something else.

If the Afghani government wants to take that risk, they can go ahead, but I don't see why we should risk our soldiers for a long shot.

[Scape]

We already know because they told us.

[Bibbi]

You guys don't get it. The Taliban and Al-Quaeda are related to a violent, primitive sect of Islam. Those that are not in their sect are the enemy and are to be killed according to their interpretation of the Koran. In a fanatic religious sect, there are no moderates. Any moderates would be stoned to death or beheaded.

[Scape]

I get that there are limits to power and an enemy that uses spoken word and scribbled notes on paper will go undetected. We can squeeze them all we want, they will just slip like sand though our fingers. We can kill all the Imams we want, they will just make more. If we want to truly eradicate their power base we need to address the poverty and stop the flow of money to Saudi Princes sitting on oil royalties who preach death to the infidel. If we can't address both those fronts at the same time, and trying to force a wedge is a part of that, then how is anything going to change?

The Wahhabi get their money from oil and the Taliban from opium, those our our vices. Cut that off and you strike at the root. At the same time develop the land and the people so they can stand up vs the thugs and then perhaps there can be change that has a future.

[commanderkai]

Scape Scape:

We already know because they told us.

They as in the Taliban? Who told us? And on top of that, why should we trust them? I wouldn't trust the guy in the black van saying he has candy for us either.

[Scape]

If they say they are working with Usama why would you doubt them?