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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:18 am
 


Ukrainian forces entering center of Kramatorsk



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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:27 am
 


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... d/2128658/

The OSCE observers have been cut loose.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:44 am
 


http://thechronicleherald.ca/world/1205 ... -s-economy

According to the IMF, Russia is now in recession.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:29 am
 


Ukriane is slipping into a full blown out civil war and the west will be dragged into it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:34 am
 


Goober911 Goober911:
As has been stated repeatedly, charging in guns a blazing is what Putin wants. He need the ethnic Russians on his side. Presently, there are large numbers of ethnic Russians who want nothing to do with Russia.

If the support from them is not there it will & would be an occupation, not welcomed by many ethic Russian. How would that work for Vlad.

You seem to slam them for being cautious. As I stated before, you do not get the situation on the ground. Ukraine needed time to not only train, little though that would be, but prepare, plan and get more political support from the west.
Which happened yesterday with Obama -Merkel stating if the elections are interfered with by Russia, more sanctions will be applied.
The Ukraine President would be a fool to rush in.


Idiot. The supporters of Putin were taking over large parts of Easter Ukraine, because the army was doing nothing. So Putin wouldn't need an excuse to invade because it would be handed to him on a sliver platter.

You seem to only see things in black and white, either do nothing or be John Wayne. I'm very glad that at last Turchynov has woken up and is doing something. You call him a fool, I think it was his only realistic option.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:41 am
 


PostFactum PostFactum:
andyt andyt:
PostFactum PostFactum:
I have some doubts, is Putin paying you for your posts?


Yes. Me, Turchynov, and many other anti-russian Ukrainians, including the ones that demonstrated in Odessa. (To bad they don't understand the diff between action and going over the top) That Putin, he controls both sides.

Good, I thought you are full jackass and do it for free.


Might as well be for free. A few Rubles doesn't go very far. Turchynov gets the lion's share since he can actually influence what happens. My arguing with surrender monkeys on CKA doesn't really advance the cause of the glorious motherland very much.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:13 am
 


andyt andyt:
Goober911 Goober911:
As has been stated repeatedly, charging in guns a blazing is what Putin wants. He need the ethnic Russians on his side. Presently, there are large numbers of ethnic Russians who want nothing to do with Russia.

If the support from them is not there it will & would be an occupation, not welcomed by many ethic Russian. How would that work for Vlad.

You seem to slam them for being cautious. As I stated before, you do not get the situation on the ground. Ukraine needed time to not only train, little though that would be, but prepare, plan and get more political support from the west.
Which happened yesterday with Obama -Merkel stating if the elections are interfered with by Russia, more sanctions will be applied.
The Ukraine President would be a fool to rush in.


Idiot. The supporters of Putin were taking over large parts of Easter Ukraine, because the army was doing nothing. So Putin wouldn't need an excuse to invade because it would be handed to him on a sliver platter.

You seem to only see things in black and white, either do nothing or be John Wayne. I'm very glad that at last Turchynov has woken up and is doing something. You call him a fool, I think it was his only realistic option.


Idiot, really. Do you not think that the President had to be cautious?
He was always awake, something you keep on missing.
No I do not see in black and white, I see the many levels this is being played on.
You do not.
People like you have lead us into dumb wars before. Your thinking is make a rush with the Military and all will be well. That is well below dumb and stupid is above dumb. Perhaps you can provide a term for that?

Have you ever been to a country that has been thru a civil war?
Have you ever seen the unbridled hate?


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:16 am
 


andyt andyt:
Because you fling shit at me for suggesting the Ukrainians might actually want to resist the insurgents instead of doing absolutely nothing. So obviously since you so vehemently disagree with that idea that you have to hurl insults, doing nothing is what you favor, since advocating anything else is being a chickenhawk.


No, I have no problem with them defending themselves. I have problems with your call to arms when you yourself would never man up.

$1:
Probably good that you're out of the forces then. Soldiers standing idly by while people take over their country is a sad sight. Surrendering their weapons to those people even sadder. Getting shot and killed without fighting back saddest of all. AT least it turns out that Turchynov hadn't ordered this behavior and finally took some action, and that not all Ukrainians were making excuses for the soldiers the way Post Factum was.


Not even worth addressing. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:16 am
 


BRAH BRAH:
Ukriane is slipping into a full blown out civil war and the west will be dragged into it.

No, not yet. Thousand of irregulars, also crooks,, Russian special troops on the ground.
But as I mentioned on a number of occasions, the majority of the ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine want Fukall to do with Russia.
They also want nothing to do with NATO.
Prefer to stay out of it.
Same can be said for substantial number in Western Ukraine.
Want to trade with both.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:22 am
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
andyt andyt:
Because you fling shit at me for suggesting the Ukrainians might actually want to resist the insurgents instead of doing absolutely nothing. So obviously since you so vehemently disagree with that idea that you have to hurl insults, doing nothing is what you favor, since advocating anything else is being a chickenhawk.


No, I have no problem with them defending themselves. I have problems with your call to arms when you yourself would never man up.



So one you presume to know what I would or would not do, then try to shut down my argument based on that baseless presumption. Good one. Do you have a list of who's qualified to comment on what topic here? Very few posters here have seen combat. Are they the only ones who can suggest that soldiers might want to step up and stop an insurgency? Leaves out the greater portion of the current and former military guys here.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:28 am
 


andyt andyt:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
andyt andyt:
Because you fling shit at me for suggesting the Ukrainians might actually want to resist the insurgents instead of doing absolutely nothing. So obviously since you so vehemently disagree with that idea that you have to hurl insults, doing nothing is what you favor, since advocating anything else is being a chickenhawk.


No, I have no problem with them defending themselves. I have problems with your call to arms when you yourself would never man up.



So one you presume to know what I would or would not do, then try to shut down my argument based on that baseless presumption. Good one. Do you have a list of who's qualified to comment on what topic here? Very few posters here have seen combat. Are they the only ones who can suggest that soldiers might want to step up and stop an insurgency? Leaves out the greater portion of the current and former military guys here.


You honestly don't have a clue why I called you a chickenhawk. Best just stick to double-doubles. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:29 am
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
You honestly don't have a clue why I called you a chickenhawk. Best just stick to double-doubles. :roll:


Sure I do. You're an asshole.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:31 am
 


andyt andyt:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
You honestly don't have a clue why I called you a chickenhawk. Best just stick to double-doubles. :roll:


Sure I do. You're an asshole.


Sure I'm an asshole at times, but that's not why. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:36 am
 


I you have a concret quote of mine that has me saying anything more than that the forces, police and military should intervene and take on the insurgents, some great jingoistic raving like we might hear from Bart, (I only urged Ukraine to do what it is finally doing - take on the few hundred insurgents and their supporters before they take over the whole East. Attack and take down checkpoints. If they fire you you, fire back, don't let them kill some of you and take your weapons without even defending yourself. And so on.) to back up your contention, let's see it.

If you're saying that I can't comment because I've never been in the military, then yes, you're being an asshole at this time. And you're right, it's not the fist time


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:45 am
 


andyt andyt:
...you're being an asshole at this time. And you're right, it's not the fist time


Are you guys flirting in flaming code? :lol:


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