[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

If I have it straight from Dr Caleb in pm, it's not what I said but how I said it, I wasn't being sensitive enough. Not really a trait I associate with CKA. What got me going were circular arguments about why standing by was the only possible policy to prevent Russian invasion. True enough, the Russians wouldn't have to invade at that point, they'd just be handed the place on a silver platter.

Putin seems to be several steps ahead of everybody, but there are reasons why he might not invade. The population is about evenly split, so he doesn't have the overwhelming support he had in Crimea. He doesn't have troops already stationed in Eastern Ukraine. The West might just act if he invades further. But I'm not sure how Turchynov will be able to keep Eastern Ukraine - there's just so much pro-Russian support. I bet Putin would be satisfied if it becomes independent. He can gobble it up later when the West has stood down from it's already weak position and as busy whoring itself to Russian money.

To addiction, before these days Putins rating in Russia was lower than sea water line,
now it is over 80%.

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Just fixed your post. andy is trolling here, a regular chickenhawk who talks a good battle(as long as it's someone else who puts their ass on the line).

Good to know you won't be defending Canada in case of an insurgency here. Probably better to let your commanders know now that they can't count on you.

[Winnipegger]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

The obvious solution is what Andy calls Finlandisation. That's not a condemnation, it's just practical. Let Ukraine be neutral.

The time for this was before the Russians invaded Ukraine and sliced off part of it for themselves and before they started running operations to seize half of the country.

I mean no offense to you when I say that this kind of deal has been done before when Germany took the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia. The Germans then used the same argument that Putin is using now. The Germans wanted to 'protect' German-speaking people and Putin ostensibly wants to protect Russian-speaking people.

Do we really want to set a precedent where stable international borders are replaced by the shifting tides of linguistic migrations?

The world is more or less stable right now and we need to keep it that way. Allowing this nonsense is going to cause serious problems especially in the Pacific where any number of countries have large Chinese populations. Do we really want to encourage China to invade Singapore or etc. to 'protect' Chinese-speaking populations?

Do you think for one moment that someone in China isn't thinking about this right now?

All good points. And I really wouldn't want to see anyone who took territory by military force gain anything. But I don't see a practical way to get Crimea back. Current US and Canadian policy is to apply sanctions. That won't do anything. And Obama has said he can't completely cut off all Russian natural gas to Europe; it just isn't practical. But anything less won't hurt Russia at all. So how do you get Crimea back? And really, considering it isn't just a linguistic group, there's a lot more to it. It's just too complicated. I don't see a solution.

The objective right now has to be ensure no further loss, and stabilize Ukraine. CTV just interviewed someone from the Royal Military College. He said there's only a few hundred trouble makers, for the entire pro-Russian insurgency. And they're playing a game of whack-a-mole: hit them in one place, they pop up somewhere else. My conclusion: time to arrest them. Lock them up. Act quick, don't let the Russian provocateurs blend back into the local population. Yes, you want to avoid massacre. You want to arrest protesters alive. I already provided a video of riot police at the G20 summit in Toronto. Most of those arrested were not detained for long. Police arrested everyone, then interrogated them to determine who the instigators were. Again, I argue overkill for Canada, but this is exactly what Ukraine needs right now. No killing, just mass arrest of insurgents.

Ps. CBC now has an article about Medieval combat championships in Spain. Considering I posted about medieval recreationists hired to train riot police in Ontario? Looks like a CBC reporter is reading what we post. :wave:

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

If I have it straight from Dr Caleb in pm, it's not what I said but how I said it, I wasn't being sensitive enough. Not really a trait I associate with CKA. What got me going were circular arguments about why standing by was the only possible policy to prevent Russian invasion. True enough, the Russians wouldn't have to invade at that point, they'd just be handed the place on a silver platter.

Putin seems to be several steps ahead of everybody, but there are reasons why he might not invade. The population is about evenly split, so he doesn't have the overwhelming support he had in Crimea. He doesn't have troops already stationed in Eastern Ukraine. The West might just act if he invades further. But I'm not sure how Turchynov will be able to keep Eastern Ukraine - there's just so much pro-Russian support. I bet Putin would be satisfied if it becomes independent. He can gobble it up later when the West has stood down from it's already weak position and as busy whoring itself to Russian money.

No - again you misunderstand the situation- It has to be slow, sure and as few casualties as possible. Ya jes can't see it can ya.
Do not give the Russians an excuse.

You must have watched to many John Wayne movies.

The population is not evenly split- Where did you dig that pearl from???

[Goober911]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Goober911 Goober911:

Being from there, did you not expect Russia would come for the Crimea if there was an opportunity under Putin? We saw the same in Georgia, but Georgia made a critical mistake.

Whay do you mean "come for the Crimea" ? They are already there, and I think it's for very long time.

Crimea was always a part of Russia. If the situation arose as it did, Putin was coming for it.

[andyt]

Goober911 Goober911:

No - again you misunderstand the situation- It has to be slow, sure and as few casualties as possible. Ya jes can't see it can ya.
Do not give the Russians an excuse.

You must have watched to many John Wayne movies.

The population is not evenly split- Where did you dig that pearl from???

$1:

Polls show a deep divide between a small majority that wants to stick with Kyiv and those that support the self-styled People’s Republic of Donetsk and want it to be annexed to Russia the moment it wins its freedom from Kyiv.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/world/ ... z30c7gaaOa


Fuck off with your John Wayne moving slowly. Until a couple days ago, moving slowly meant moving backwards. And there's no sure on the Ukrainian side at all, that's all Putin.

The Russians don't need an excuse. What they need to see is some will to resist them. Otherwise, just lie back and open wide.

[andyt]

$1:

Friday evening, a pro-Ukrainian mob attacked a camp where the pro-Russian supporters had pitched tents, forcing them to flee to a nearby government building, a witness said. The mob then threw gasoline bombs into the building. Police said 31 people were killed when they choked on smoke or jumped out of windows.

Asked who had thrown the molotov cocktails, pro-Ukrainian activist Diana Berg said, “Our people — but now they are helping them to escape the building.”

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Just fixed your post. andy is trolling here, a regular chickenhawk who talks a good battle(as long as it's someone else who puts their ass on the line).

Good to know you won't be defending Canada in case of an insurgency here. Probably better to let your commanders know now that they can't count on you.

I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. But I would bet dollars to your crullers that you wouldn't stand up and fight.

BTW I have been retired from the army for over 2 years now, I don't have a commander anymore.

[ShepherdsDog]

liar...you're married

[martin14]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

liar...you're married

He serves under a dictator now.

[PostFactum]

TV station in Kramatorsk is free.

[2Cdo]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

liar...you're married

But I spend so much time away it makes it feel like I'm free.

martin14 martin14:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

liar...you're married

He serves under a dictator now.

She's actually quite a benevolent dictator.

I've always described our marriage as a she's management and I'm labour.

[Jabberwalker]

I consider my self to be merely a beast of burden in our family.

[ShepherdsDog]

an ass?

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

an ass?